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In this article, we propose a dialogue between psychoanalysts who discuss epistemological psychoanalysis and psychoanalysts engaged with ontological psychoanalysis, highlighting the contributions of Thomas Ogden, for whom the former seek knowledge and understanding, with Freud and Klein as the principal authors, while the latter is decentered from the symbolic aspects of the experience, with Bion and Winnicott as references in emphasizing the importance of communication in the analyst's practice in order to open a field for the imagination and the oneiric. It is our understanding that ontological psychoanalysis seeks what we call here intersubjective substance-forming, created between the analyst and the analysand to facilitate trust in the relationship and to favor a field of creation between them. To this end, words with wings, that is, words exempt from any fixed meaning, make possible real and human contact. Clinical vignettes are presented that illustrate ways in which ontological psychoanalysis makes itself present in psychoanalytic processes. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]