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Introduction: Guselkumab is an interleukin-23 (IL-23) inhibitor licensed for the treatment of psoriatic arthritis (PsA). This study aimed to evaluate the 6-month effectiveness of guselkumab in patients with PsA in a "real-life" multicentre patient cohort. We also estimated the drug retention rate (DRR) of gusulkumab, also assessing the impact of comorbidities and patient clinical characteristics, in a collective 18-month prospective follow-up., Methods: Between December 2021 and September 2023, consecutive patients with PsA were evaluated if treated at least for 6 months with guselkumab in a prospective multicentre study to evaluate the effectiveness of the drug by means of disease activity index for psoriatic arthritis (DAPSA) and cumulative DRR., Results: A total of 111 patients with PsA were evaluated and treated with guselkumab (age 56.8 ± 9.9, male sex 20.7%). These patients were mainly characterised by active and long-standing PsA with median disease duration of 6.0 (7.0) years (55.9% disease duration ≥ 5 years), 55.0% showed comorbidities, 78.4% of patients were previously treated with biologic disease-modifying anti-rheumatic drugs (bDMARDs), and 60.4% concomitantly with conventional synthetic DMARDs (csDMARDs). After 6 months, a significant reduction of DAPSA was observed (β - 15.47, p = 0.001, 95% CI - 23.15 to - 9.79) with 39.6% of patients achieving a DAPSA ≤ 14. At the end of cumulative follow-up, 71.2% of patients were still treated with guselkumab whereas 24.3% discontinued the drug because of inefficacy. An 18-month DRR of guselkumab of 66.7% was estimated with a mean time of administration of 9.8 ± 4.1 months. The results of the DRR were stratified according to patient clinical characteristics. The DRR of guselkumab appeared to be not influenced by long disease duration, comorbidities, obesity, concomitant csDMARDs, and previous bDMARDs., Conclusion: The "real-life" 6-month effectiveness of guselkumab was shown in patients with PsA, mainly characterised by active long-standing disease, previously treated with bDMARDs, and with comorbidities. Furthermore, a good DRR of guselkumab was estimated in the cumulative 18 months of follow-up and appeared to be not influenced by long disease duration, comorbidities, obesity, and previous bDMARDs., (© 2024. The Author(s).)

Background: A consistent connection has been increasingly reported between rheumatoid arthritis (RA), insulin resistance (IR), and type 2 diabetes (T2D). The β-cell apoptosis induced by pro-inflammatory cytokines, which could be exaggerated in the context of RA, is associated with increased expression pro-apoptotic proteins, which is dependent on JAnus Kinase/Signal Transducer and Activator of Transcription (JAK/STAT) activation. On these bases, we aimed to evaluate if the administration of tofacitinib, a potent and selective JAK inhibitor, could simultaneously improve glycaemic parameters and inflammatory markers in patients with RA and comorbid T2D., Methods: The primary endpoint was the change in the 1998-updated homeostatic model assessment of IR (HOMA2-IR) after 6 months of treatment with tofacitinib in RA patients with T2D. Consecutive RA patients with T2D diagnosis were included in this proof-of-concept, open, prospective, clinical study, which was planned before the recent emergence of safety signals about tofacitinib. Additional endpoints were also assessed regarding RA disease activity and metabolic parameters., Results: Forty consecutive RA patients with T2D were included (female sex 68.9%, mean age of 63.4 ± 9.9 years). During 6-month follow-up, a progressive reduction of HOMA2-IR was observed in RA patients with T2D treated with tofacitinib. Specifically, a significant effect of tofacitinib was shown on the overall reduction of HOMA2-IR (β =  - 1.1, p = 0.019, 95%CI - 1.5 to - 0.76). Also, HOMA2-β enhanced in these patients highlighting an improvement of insulin sensitivity. Furthermore, although a longer follow-up is required, a trend in glycated haemoglobin reduction was also recorded. The administration of tofacitinib induced an improvement in RA disease activity, and a significant reduction of DAS28-CRP and SDAI was observed; 76.8% of patients achieved a good clinical response. In this study, no major adverse events (AEs) were retrieved without the identification of new safety signals. Specifically, no life-threatening AEs and cardiovascular and/or thromboembolic events were recorded., Conclusions: The administration of tofacitinib in RA with T2D led to a simultaneous improvement of IR and inflammatory disease activity, inducing a "bidirectional" benefit in these patients. However, further specific designed and powered studies are warranted to entirely evaluate the metabolic effects of tofacitinib in RA patients with T2D., (© 2024. The Author(s).)

Objectives: We aimed to evaluate the drug retention rate (DRR) of secukinumab, an anti-IL-17A monoclonal antibody, in patients with psoriatic arthritis (PsA) in a real-life cohort, and to assess the impact of comorbidities and patient clinical characteristics on the DRR of secukinumab., Methods: A retrospective study of prospective followed-up patients was performed to evaluate the DRR of secukinumab on patients with PsA attending the recruiting centres between January 2016 and June 2022., Results: In 207 patients with PsA, a 60-month DRR of secukinumab of 57.0% was estimated (mean time of administration of 21.5±17.1 months). Male gender, age ≥65 years, disease duration ≥5 years and ≥10 years did not influence the DRR of secukinumab. The presence of comorbidities, considering any concomitant disorder, did not affect the DRR of secukinumab. In patients with cardiometabolic multimorbidity, a trend toward a better DRR of secukinumab was recorded. In fact, patients with high blood pressure, dyslipidaemia, and type 2 diabetes showed a trend toward an improved DRR of secukinumab. Furthermore, the presence of obesity did not influence the DRR of secukinumab. Different dosages, previous bDMARDs, and concomitant therapy with csDMARDs did not influence the DRR of secukinumab., Conclusions: A cumulative 60-month DRR of secukinumab of 57.0% in patients with PsA was retrieved. The presence of cardiometabolic multimorbidity could be associated with an improved DRR of secukinumab, whereas obesity did not affect this feature in our cohort. Previous bDMARDs, concomitant csDMARDs, and different drug dosages could not influence the DRR of secukinumab over time.

Atlantoaxial joint is a possible affected site during rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and, in this work, we evaluated its occurrence and associated characteristics in a "real-life" cohort. By a medical records review study of RA patients longitudinally followed-up, the occurrence of severe atlantoaxial joint involvement was estimated (incidence proportion and incidence rate per 1000 person-years at risk). Regression analyses were also exploited to evaluate possible associated factors. Based on these findings, a prospective recruitment was performed to build a descriptive cross-sectional study in evaluating a subclinical atlantoaxial joint involvement in patients with the same clinical characteristics. Retrospectively, 717 patients (female 56.6%, age 64.7 ± 12.3 years) were studied. The incidence proportion of severe atlantoaxial joint involvement was 2.1% [1.5-2.5], occurring in 15 out of 717 patients, and identified by both MRI and CT scan. Considering over 3091 person-years, an incidence rate of 5.2 × 1000 [2.9-8.3] person-years was estimated. Regression analyses suggested that male gender, a longer disease duration, ACPA positivity and extra-articular manifestations resulted to be significantly associated with a severe atlantoaxial joint involvement. Given these findings, 30 asymptomatic patients were selected according to these clinical characteristics and underwent MRI of cervical spine. To date, almost 50% of these asymptomatic patients showed a subclinical atlantoaxial joint involvement. The occurrence of the severe atlantoaxial joint involvement in RA patients was estimated in a "real-life" setting. Male gender, ACPA positivity, long disease duration, and extra-articular manifestations could be associated with the severe atlantoaxial joint involvement in RA. MRI could provide a useful clinical tool to early evaluate the atlantoaxial joint involvement in RA, also in asymptomatic patients., (© 2023. The Author(s).)

Background: Different patient clusters were preliminarily suggested to dissect the clinical heterogeneity in Still's disease. Thus, we aimed at deriving and validating disease clusters in a multicentre, observational, prospective study to stratify these patients., Methods: Patients included in GIRRCS AOSD-study group and AIDA Network Still Disease Registry were assessed if variables for cluster analysis were available (age, systemic score, erythrocyte sedimentation rate (ESR), C reactive protein (CRP) and ferritin). K-means algorithm with Euclidean metric and Elbow plot were used to derive an adequate number of clusters., Results: K-means clustering assessment provided four clusters based on means standardised according to z-scores on 349 patients. All clusters mainly presented fever, skin rash and joint involvement. Cluster 1 was composed by 115 patients distinguished by lower values of age and characterised by skin rash myalgia, sore throat and splenomegaly. Cluster 2 included 128 patients identified by lower levels of ESR, ferritin and systemic score; multiorgan manifestations were less frequently observed. Cluster 3 comprised 31 patients categorised by higher levels of CRP and ferritin, they were characterised by fever and joint involvement. Cluster 4 contained 75 patients derived by higher values of age and systemic score. Myalgia, sore throat, liver involvement and life-threatening complications, leading to a high mortality rate, were observed in these patients., Conclusions: Four patient clusters in Still's disease may be recognised by a multidimensional characterisation ('Juvenile/Transitional', 'Uncomplicated', 'Hyperferritinemic' and 'Catastrophic'). Of interest, cluster 4 was burdened by an increased rate of life-threatening complications and mortality, suggesting a more severe patient group., Competing Interests: Competing interests: None declared., (© Author(s) (or their employer(s)) 2023. Re-use permitted under CC BY. Published by BMJ.)

This "real-life" cross-sectional study has been designed to describe disease features of rheumatoid arthritis (RA) participants affected by cardiometabolic multimorbidity than those without. Our purpose was also the identification of possible associations between these cardiometabolic diseases and RA clinical characteristics. Consecutive RA participants with and without cardiometabolic multimorbidity were assessed and their clinical characteristics were recorded. Participants were grouped and compared by the presence or not of cardiometabolic multimorbidity (defined as ≥ 2 out of 3 cardiovascular risk factors including hypertension, dyslipidemia, and type 2 diabetes). The possible influence of cardiometabolic multimorbidity on RA features of poor prognosis was assessed. The positivity of anti-citrullinated protein antibodies, presence of extra-articular manifestations, lack of clinical remission, and biologic Disease-Modifying anti-Rheumatic Drugs (bDMARDs) failure were considered as RA features of poor prognosis. In the present evaluation, 757 consecutive RA participants were evaluated. Among them, 13.5% showed cardiometabolic multimorbidity. These were older (P < .001) and characterized by a longer disease duration (P = .023). They were more often affected by extra-articular manifestations (P = .029) and frequently displayed smoking habit (P = .003). A lower percentage of these patients was in clinical remission (P = .048), and they showed a more frequent history of bDMARD failure (P < .001). Regression models showed that cardiometabolic multimorbidity was significantly correlated with RA features of disease severity. They were predictors of anti-citrullinated protein antibodies positivity, of extra-articular manifestations, and of lack of clinical remission, in both univariate and multivariate analyses. Cardiometabolic multimorbidity was significantly associated with a history of bDMARD failure. We described disease features of RA participants with cardiometabolic multimorbidity, identifying a possible more difficult to treat subset, which may need a new management approach to achieve the treatment goal., Competing Interests: The authors have no funding and conflicts of interest to disclose., (Copyright © 2023 the Author(s). Published by Wolters Kluwer Health, Inc.)

Objectives: To multidimensionally characterize macrophage activation syndrome (MAS) complicating adult-onset Still's disease (AOSD) considering cytokine profile, inflammatory markers and multi-visceral involvement of the disease. To perform a high-dimensional phenotypic analysis of circulating immune cells in AOSD patients with and without MAS. To assess interferon (IFN)-related pathways in AOSD synovial tissues by a bulky RNA sequencing., Methods: Clinical and biologic data were collected and compared in AOSD patients with and without MAS. Sera biomolecules were analysed by Luminex multiplexing technology. Mass cytometry (CyTOF) was used to characterize circulating immune cells. A bulky RNA sequencing was performed in AOSD synovial tissues., Results: Forty consecutive AOSD patients were assessed, 14 complicated with MAS. Paralleling with increases of systemic score and ferritin, MAS patients showed higher levels of IL-1α, IL-1β, IL-1Ra, IL-2Ra, IL-6, IL-10, IL-17A, IFN-γ, G-CSF, MCP-1, MIP-1α and SCF. Combining the discriminatory ability of these data in identifying MAS, the best model was composed by systemic score, ferritin, IFN-γ and IL-10. By CyTOF analysis, MAS patients showed an increase of circulating 'classical monocytes' and a reduction of total NK cells. Our assessment showed 3477 IFN-related genes (IRGs) were differently expressed in AOSD synovial tissues., Conclusions: A multidimensional characterization of AOSD patients suggested that IFN-γ, IL-10, ferritin and systemic score discriminated the occurrence of cytokine storm syndrome associated with MAS. The inflammatory milieu of AOSD and MAS may be related to a signature of circulating immune cells. Finally, our results about IRGs reinforced the role of IFN-γ in these patients., (© The Author(s) 2022. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the British Society for Rheumatology. All rights reserved. For permissions, please email: journals.permissions@oup.com.)

Multiple lines of evidence have increasingly suggested a pathogenic connection between rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and the mechanisms of type 2 diabetes (T2D) in a vicious circle perpetuated by glucose derangement and inflammatory mediators. These findings have been further reinforced by clinical studies showing that the inhibition of interleukin (IL)-1 and IL-6 may allow the treatment of RA and concomitant T2D at the same time. Interestingly, IL-1 inhibition induced a more evident reduction of glycated haemoglobin (HbA1c) in patients with concomitant RA and T2D than in previous studies on IL-1 inhibition in patients with this metabolic disease alone. Thus, the inflammatory pathogenic mechanisms of T2D could be exaggerated in the context of a rheumatic disease, possibly explaining these findings. In fact, IL-1 inhibition could not only palliate glycaemia, but also decrease the progressive decline in insulin secretion associated with T2D, interfering with apoptosis of β-cells, improving their function, and ameliorating the peripheral insulin resistance. Moreover, the maintenance of clinical remission of rheumatic disease could further improve the glucose derangement and reduce the occurrence of T2D in RA. On these bases, the presence of T2D may allow the physicians to perform a better profile of patients with RA according to the principles of precision medicine, tailoring the medical treatment to the individual characteristics. In this context, the benefits of targeting the inflammatory process, mainly by IL-1 inhibition, may be suggested in patients with RA and concomitant T2D., (© 2022. The Author(s).)

Objective: To compare clinical features and treatments of patients with systemic JIA (sIJA) and adult-onset Still's disease (AOSD)., Methods: The clinical charts of consecutive patients with sJIA by International League of Association of Rheumatology criteria or AOSD by Yamaguchi criteria were reviewed. Patients were seen at a large paediatric rheumatology referral centre or at 10 adult rheumatology academic centres. Data collected included clinical manifestations, inflammation biomarkers, systemic score, macrophage activation syndrome (MAS), parenchymal lung disease, disease course, disability, death and medications administered., Results: A total of 166 patients (median age at diagnosis 5 years) with sJIA and 194 patients with AOSD (median age at diagnosis 41 years) were included. The frequency of fever, rash, arthralgia, abdominal pain, MAS, parenchymal lung disease and increased acute phase reactants and ferritin were comparable between the two cohorts. Patients with sJIA had a higher prevalence of arthritis, whereas patients with AOSD had experienced leucocytosis and extra-articular organ involvement more frequently. Patients with AOSD were given more commonly low-dose corticosteroids, whereas biologic DMARDs were administered first-line more frequently in patients with sJIA., Conclusion: We found remarkable disparities in the prevalence of clinical manifestations between the two illnesses, which may partly depend on their classification by different criteria., (© The Author(s) 2022. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the British Society for Rheumatology.)

Objectives: In this study, we aimed at describing the clinical characteristics, life-threatening complications occurrence, and mortality of adult-onset Still's disease (AOSD) patients with elderly onset., Methods: A multicentre retrospective study of prospectively followed-up AOSD patients included in Gruppo Italiano di Ricerca in Reumatologia Clinica e Sperimentale (GIRRCS) cohort was performed., Results: Out of 221 assessed patients, 37 (16.7%) had an onset of the disease aged over 60 years. When compared with younger patients, these were characterised by a higher prevalence of pericarditis (p=0.008), comorbidities (p<0.0001), and mortality (p=0.023). Age predicted the presence of serositis in both univariate (HR: 1.02, 95%CI: 1.01-1.03, p=0.007) and multivariate analyses (HR: 1.02, 95%CI: 1.01-1.04, p=0.007). Age was also a significant predictor of parenchymal lung disease in both univariate (HR: 1.03, 95%CI: 1.01-1.05, p=0.017) and multivariate analyses (HR: 1.03, 95%CI: 1.00-1.05, p=0.048). Furthermore, age resulted to be a negative predictor of polycyclic pattern only in univariate analysis (HR: 0.99, 95%CI: 0.97-1.00, p=0.048). Finally, age significantly predicted the mortality in both univariate (HR: 1.03, 95%CI: 1.00-1.06, p=0.034) and multivariate analyses (HR: 1.05, 95%CI: 1.01-1.08, p=0.012)., Conclusions: Clinical features of AOSD patients in the elderly were described in our cohort. Although the main clinical characteristics were similar comparing older and younger patients, patients aged over 60 years at disease onset were characterised by an increased prevalence of serositis, comorbidities, mostly cardiometabolic, and a higher mortality rate. Age predicted the presence of parenchymal lung disease and mortality, and it could be considered a negative prognostic factor in AOSD.

We aimed to investigate the health-related quality of life (HRQoL) in Adult onset Still disease (AOSD) patients, a rare systemic auto-inflammatory disorder of unknown etiology usually affecting young adults. In this multicentre cross-sectional study, AOSD patients and age and gender matched healthy controls (HCs) were included. All patients had a low or absent clinical expressiveness, they were categorized as having a monocyclic pattern or a chronic disease course. The Health Assessment Questionnaire (HAQ), European Quality of Life Questionnaire (EUROQoL), 36-Items Short-Form Healthy Survey (SF-36), Functional Assessment of Chronic Illness Therapy Fatigue subscale (FACIT-F), 100 mm-visual analogue scale (VAS) of pain, fatigue, and global health assessment, were used to evaluate HRQoL. The results were compared between patients and HCs, analyzed according to clinical course, and correlated with clinical features at the time of diagnosis. HRQoL resulted to be altered in 53 AOSD patients compared to 53 age and gender matched HCs. Many SF-36 domains differed between the 2 groups, mainly those of physical functioning which were reduced in AOSD respect to HCs. Furthermore, HAQ, FACIT-F, EuroQoL, VAS state of health, VAS pain, and VAS fatigue significantly differed between AOSD and HCs. No substantial differences were found comparing monocyclic pattern with chronic disease course. AOSD patients showed an impairment of many SF-36 domains, HAQ, FACIT-F, EuroQoL, VAS state of health, VAS pain, and VAS fatigue when compared to matched HCs, despite a low or absent clinical expressiveness; these findings were similarly retrieved in both monocyclic pattern and chronic disease course., Competing Interests: The authors have no funding and conflicts of interest to disclose., (Copyright © 2022 the Author(s). Published by Wolters Kluwer Health, Inc.)

From the introduction of hyperferritinemic syndrome concept, a growing body of evidence has suggested the role of ferritin as a pathogenic mediator and a relevant clinical feature in the management of patients with inflammatory diseases. From a pathogenic point of view, ferritin may directly stimulate the aberrant immune response by triggering the production of pro-inflammatory mediators in inducing a vicious pathogenic loop and contributing to the occurrence of cytokine storm syndrome. The latter has been recently defined as a clinical picture characterised by elevated circulating cytokine levels, acute systemic inflammatory symptoms, and secondary organ dysfunction beyond that which could be attributed to a normal response to a pathogen It is noteworthy that the occurrence of hyperferritinemia may be correlated with the development of the cytokine storm syndrome in the context of an inflammatory disease. In addition to adult onset Still's disease, macrophage activation syndrome, catastrophic anti-phospholipids syndrome, and septic shock, recent evidence has suggested this association between ferritin and life-threatening evolution in patients with systemic lupus erythematosus, with anti-MDA5 antibodies in the context of poly-dermatomyositis, with severe COVID-19, and with multisystem inflammatory syndrome. The possible underlying common inflammatory mechanisms, associated with hyperferritinemia, may led to the similar clinical picture observed in these patients. Furthermore, similar therapeutic strategies could be suggested inhibiting pro-inflammatory cytokines and improving long-term outcomes in these disorders. Thus, it could be possible to expand the spectrum of the hyperferritinemic syndrome to those diseases burdened by a dreadful clinical picture correlated with hyperferritinemia and the occurrence of the cytokine storm syndrome. In addition, the assessment of ferritin may provide useful information to the physicians in clinical practice to manage these patients. Therefore, ferritin may be considered a relevant clinical feature to be used as biomarker in dissecting the unmet needs in the management of these disorders. Novel evidence may thus support an expansion of the spectrum of the hyperferritinemic syndrome to these diseases burdened by a life-threatening clinical picture correlated with hyperferritinemia and the occurrence of the cytokine storm syndrome., (Copyright © 2022 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.)

To assess stimulator of interferon genes (STING) pathway in patients with adult-onset Still's disease (AOSD) who were complicated or not by macrophage activation syndrome (MAS), evaluating peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs), and synovial tissues. The relative mRNA expression of key molecules of the STING pathway (i.e. CGAS, NLRP4, PKDC, STING1, XRCC5, and XRCC6) and interferon (IFN)-γ was assessed in PBMCs obtained from patients with AOSD, who were complicated or not by MAS, and healthy controls (HCs). A bulky RNA sequencing was performed in synovial tissues from two patients with AOSD. Finally, the ability of heavy ferritin subunit (FeH) to induce the expression of NLRP4 was evaluated in cultured macrophages. Twenty patients with AOSD were analysed. Out of them, seven patients were complicated by MAS. Assessing mRNA relative expression in PBMCs, STING1, NLRP4, XRCC6, and IFN-γ were significantly expressed in AOSD than HCs. The mRNA relative expression of CGAS, PKDC, and XRCC5 did not differ between patients and HCs. Furthermore, NLRP4 and IFN-γ resulted to be significantly increased in patients with AOSD complicated by MAS than others. By RNA-sequencing analysis, we observed that Nlrp4 gene was significantly up-regulated in patients with AOSD. Following the stimulation with FeH, an increased expression of NLRP4 was observed in cultured macrophages. In conclusion, an increased expression of some key molecules of STING pathway characterized patients with AOSD. In addition, our results suggested that a hyper-activity of NLRP4 may be observed in patients with MAS. Furthermore, FeH increased the expression of NLRP4 in cultured macrophages., (© The Author(s) 2022. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of the British Society for Immunology. All rights reserved. For permissions, please e-mail: journals.permissions@oup.com.)

Introduction: Over the last two decades, rituximab (RTX) has been widely used, albeit off-label, in primary Sjögren's syndrome (pSS). Several studies reported that B lymphocyte depletion with RTX is effective to treat some aspects within the disease spectrum, by reducing disease activity and affecting the inflammation and lymphoid organization that occur in target tissues. Notwithstanding, randomized controlled trials failed to confirm such evidence. With the recent release of several RTX biosimilars on the market, their efficacy and safety compared to the originator must be ascertained across different indications. This study aimed at comparing efficacy and safety of RTX originator and CT-P10 RTX biosimilar in pSS patients in a real-life setting. Methods: Clinical and laboratory records of pSS patients referring to a tertiary rheumatology clinic were retrospectively evaluated. Patients having received at least two courses of either RTX originator or CT-P10 with complete data at baseline and after 12, 24, 36, and 48 weeks of treatment were enrolled. Disease activity was assessed with the EULAR Sjögren's Syndrome Disease Activity Index (ESSDAI) and its clinical version without the biological domain (clinESSDAI). Patient-reported symptoms were assessed with the EULAR Sjögren's Syndrome Patient-Reported Index (ESSPRI). Adverse events (AEs) occurring during the study period were also recorded. Results: Nine patients who received RTX originator and eight patients who received CT-P10 were enrolled. Baseline clinical and serological features, including ESSDAI and ESSPRI, were similar in the two treatment groups. An efficient depletion of circulating CD19 + B lymphocytes was achieved in both treatment arms. Both RTX originator and CT-P10 significantly reduced ESSDAI and clinESSDAI by week 24, and no difference between the groups was observed at any timepoint. Conversely, changes of ESSPRI overtime did not differ between the two treatment arms and were not statistically significant compared to corresponding baseline values. With regard to safety, at 48 weeks of follow-up, only four mild AEs (two in the RTX originator and two in the CT-P10 group) were observed. Conclusion: Our study provides the first evidence that, at 48 weeks of follow-up, RTX originator and CT-P10 display similar efficacy and safety profiles in pSS., (Copyright © 2020 Pavlych, Di Muzio, Alunno and Carubbi.)